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From: "J. Hanne" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Memory ordering description in io_uring.pdf
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 18:56:16 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <[email protected]> (raw)

Hi,

I have a couple of questions regarding the necessity of including memory
barriers when using io_uring, as outlined in
https://kernel.dk/io_uring.pdf. I'm fine with using liburing, but still I
do want to understand what is going on behind the scenes, so any comment
would be appreciated.

Firstly, I wonder why memory barriers are required at all, when NOT using
polled mode. Because requiring them in non-polled mode somehow implies that:
- Memory re-ordering occurs across system-call boundaries (i.e. when
  submitting, the tail write could happen after the io_uring_enter
  syscall?!)
- CPU data dependency checks do not work
So, are memory barriers really required when just using a simple
loop around io_uring_enter with completely synchronous processing?

Secondly, the examples in io_uring.pdf suggest that checking completion
entries requires a read_barrier and a write_barrier and submitting entries
requires *two* write_barriers. Really?

My expectation would be, just as with "normal" inter-thread userspace ipc,
that plain store-release and load-acquire semantics are sufficient, e.g.: 
- For reading completion entries:
-- first read the CQ ring head (without any ordering enforcement)
-- then use __atomic_load(__ATOMIC_ACQUIRE) to read the CQ ring tail
-- then use __atomic_store(__ATOMIC_RELEASE) to update the CQ ring head
- For submitting entries:
-- first read the SQ ring tail (without any ordering enforcement)
-- then use __atomic_load(__ATOMIC_ACQUIRE) to read the SQ ring head
-- then use __atomic_store(__ATOMIC_RELEASE) to update the SQ ring tail
Wouldn't these be sufficient?!

Thirdly, io_uring.pdf and
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/io_uring/io_uring.c seem a
little contradicting, at least from my reading:

io_uring.pdf, in the completion entry example:
- Includes a read_barrier() **BEFORE** it reads the CQ ring tail
- Include a write_barrier() **AFTER** updating CQ head

io_uring.c says on completion entries:
- **AFTER** the application reads the CQ ring tail, it must use an appropriate
  smp_rmb() [...].
- It also needs a smp_mb() **BEFORE** updating CQ head [...].

io_uring.pdf, in the submission entry example:
- Includes a write_barrier() **BEFORE** updating the SQ tail
- Includes a write_barrier() **AFTER** updating the SQ tail

io_uring.c says on submission entries:
- [...] the application must use an appropriate smp_wmb() **BEFORE**
  writing the SQ tail
  (this matches io_uring.pdf)
- And it needs a barrier ordering the SQ head load before writing new
  SQ entries
  
I know, io_uring.pdf does mention that the memory ordering description
is simplified. So maybe this is the whole explanation for my confusion?

Cheers,
  Johann

             reply	other threads:[~2022-09-18 17:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-09-18 16:56 J. Hanne [this message]
2022-09-22  1:54 ` Memory ordering description in io_uring.pdf Jens Axboe
2022-09-25 10:34   ` J. Hanne
2022-09-25 12:03     ` J. Hanne

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