[LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

Good day everyone,

dma-buf is a powerful abstraction for managing buffers and DMA mappings,
and there is growing interest in extending it to the read/write path to
enable device-to-device transfers without bouncing data through system
memory. I was encouraged to submit it to LSF/MM/BPF as that might be
useful to mull over details and what capabilities and features people
may need.

The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. The actual mapping
creation is delegated to the target subsystem (e.g. NVMe). This
abstraction centralises request accounting, mapping management, dynamic
recreation, etc. The resulting mapping object is passed through the I/O
stack via a new iov_iter type.

As for the user API, a dma-buf is installed as an io_uring registered
buffer for a specific file. Once registered, the buffer can be used by
read / write io_uring requests as normal. io_uring will enforce that the
buffer is only used with "compatible files", which is for now restricted
to the target registration file, but will be expanded in the future.
Notably, io_uring is a consumer of the framework rather than a
dependency, and the infrastructure can be reused.

It took a couple of iterations on the list to get it to the current
design, v2 of the series can be looked up at [1], which implements the
infrastructure and initial wiring for NVMe. It slightly diverges from
the description above, as some of the framework bits are block specific,
and I'll be working on refining that and simplifying some of the
interfaces for v3. A good chunk of block handling is based on prior work
from Keith that was pre DMA mapping buffers [2].

Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
compared to bouncing it via RAM. Anuj, Kanchan and Nitesh also
previously reported encouraging results for system memory backed
dma-buf for optimising IOMMU overhead, quoting Anuj:

- STRICT: before = 570 KIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
- LAZY: before = 1.93 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
- PASSTHROUGH: before = 5.01 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/io-uring/cover.1763725387.git.asml.silence@gmail.com/
[2] https://lore.kernel.org/io-uring/20220805162444.3985535-1-kbusch@fb.com/
-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Keith Busch]

On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> Good day everyone,
> 
> dma-buf is a powerful abstraction for managing buffers and DMA mappings,
> and there is growing interest in extending it to the read/write path to
> enable device-to-device transfers without bouncing data through system
> memory. I was encouraged to submit it to LSF/MM/BPF as that might be
> useful to mull over details and what capabilities and features people
> may need.
> 
> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. The actual mapping
> creation is delegated to the target subsystem (e.g. NVMe). This
> abstraction centralises request accounting, mapping management, dynamic
> recreation, etc. The resulting mapping object is passed through the I/O
> stack via a new iov_iter type.
> 
> As for the user API, a dma-buf is installed as an io_uring registered
> buffer for a specific file. Once registered, the buffer can be used by
> read / write io_uring requests as normal. io_uring will enforce that the
> buffer is only used with "compatible files", which is for now restricted
> to the target registration file, but will be expanded in the future.
> Notably, io_uring is a consumer of the framework rather than a
> dependency, and the infrastructure can be reused.
> 
> It took a couple of iterations on the list to get it to the current
> design, v2 of the series can be looked up at [1], which implements the
> infrastructure and initial wiring for NVMe. It slightly diverges from
> the description above, as some of the framework bits are block specific,
> and I'll be working on refining that and simplifying some of the
> interfaces for v3. A good chunk of block handling is based on prior work
> from Keith that was pre DMA mapping buffers [2].
> 
> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
> compared to bouncing it via RAM. Anuj, Kanchan and Nitesh also
> previously reported encouraging results for system memory backed
> dma-buf for optimising IOMMU overhead, quoting Anuj:
> 
> - STRICT: before = 570 KIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
> - LAZY: before = 1.93 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
> - PASSTHROUGH: before = 5.01 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS

Thanks for submitting the topic. The performance wins look great, but
I'm a little surpised passthrough didn't show any difference. We're
still skipping a bit of transformations with the dmabuf compared to not
having it, so maybe it's just a matter of crafting the right benchmark
to show the benefit.

Anyway, I look forward to the next version of this feature. I promise to
have more cycles to review and test the v3.

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Anuj Gupta/Anuj Gupta]

On 2/3/2026 11:37 PM, Keith Busch wrote:
> Thanks for submitting the topic. The performance wins look great, but
> I'm a little surpised passthrough didn't show any difference. We're
> still skipping a bit of transformations with the dmabuf compared to not
> having it, so maybe it's just a matter of crafting the right benchmark
> to show the benefit.
> 

Those numbers were from a drive that saturates at ~5M IOPS, 
sopassthrough didn’t have much headroom. I did a quick run with two such
drives and saw a small improvement (~2–3%): ~5.97 MIOPS -> ~6.13 MIOPS,
but I’ll try tweaking the kernel config a bit to see if there’s more
headroom.

+1 on the topic - I'm interested in attending the discussion and
reviewing/testing v3 when it lands.

Thanks,
Anuj

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

On 2/3/26 18:07, Keith Busch wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> Good day everyone,
>>
...
>> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
>> compared to bouncing it via RAM. Anuj, Kanchan and Nitesh also
>> previously reported encouraging results for system memory backed
>> dma-buf for optimising IOMMU overhead, quoting Anuj:
>>
>> - STRICT: before = 570 KIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
>> - LAZY: before = 1.93 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
>> - PASSTHROUGH: before = 5.01 MIOPS, after = 5.01 MIOPS
> 
> Thanks for submitting the topic. The performance wins look great, but
> I'm a little surpised passthrough didn't show any difference. We're
> still skipping a bit of transformations with the dmabuf compared to not
> having it, so maybe it's just a matter of crafting the right benchmark
> to show the benefit.

My first thought was that hardware couldn't push more and would
be great to have idle numbers, but Anuj already demystified it.

> Anyway, I look forward to the next version of this feature. I promise to
> have more cycles to review and test the v3.

Thanks! And in general, IMHO at this point waiting for next
version would be more time efficient for reviewers.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Nitesh Shetty]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1934 bytes --]

On 03/02/26 02:29PM, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>Good day everyone,
>
>dma-buf is a powerful abstraction for managing buffers and DMA mappings,
>and there is growing interest in extending it to the read/write path to
>enable device-to-device transfers without bouncing data through system
>memory. I was encouraged to submit it to LSF/MM/BPF as that might be
>useful to mull over details and what capabilities and features people
>may need.
>
>The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
>framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
>and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. The actual mapping
>creation is delegated to the target subsystem (e.g. NVMe). This
>abstraction centralises request accounting, mapping management, dynamic
>recreation, etc. The resulting mapping object is passed through the I/O
>stack via a new iov_iter type.
>
>As for the user API, a dma-buf is installed as an io_uring registered
>buffer for a specific file. Once registered, the buffer can be used by
>read / write io_uring requests as normal. io_uring will enforce that the
>buffer is only used with "compatible files", which is for now restricted
>to the target registration file, but will be expanded in the future.
>Notably, io_uring is a consumer of the framework rather than a
>dependency, and the infrastructure can be reused.
>
We have been following the series, its interesting from couple of angles,
- IOPS wise we see a major improvement especially for IOMMU
- Series provides a way to do p2pdma to accelerator memory

Here are few topics which I am looking into specifically,
- Right now the series uses a PRP list. We need a good way to keep the
   sg_table info around and decide on‑the‑fly whether to expose the buffer
   as a PRP list or an SG list, depending on the I/O size.
- Possibility of futher optimization for new type of iov iter to reduce
   per IO cost

Thanks,
Nitesh

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Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Ming Lei]

On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> Good day everyone,
> 
> dma-buf is a powerful abstraction for managing buffers and DMA mappings,
> and there is growing interest in extending it to the read/write path to
> enable device-to-device transfers without bouncing data through system
> memory. I was encouraged to submit it to LSF/MM/BPF as that might be
> useful to mull over details and what capabilities and features people
> may need.
> 
> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. The actual mapping
> creation is delegated to the target subsystem (e.g. NVMe). This
> abstraction centralises request accounting, mapping management, dynamic
> recreation, etc. The resulting mapping object is passed through the I/O
> stack via a new iov_iter type.
> 
> As for the user API, a dma-buf is installed as an io_uring registered
> buffer for a specific file. Once registered, the buffer can be used by
> read / write io_uring requests as normal. io_uring will enforce that the
> buffer is only used with "compatible files", which is for now restricted
> to the target registration file, but will be expanded in the future.
> Notably, io_uring is a consumer of the framework rather than a
> dependency, and the infrastructure can be reused.

I am interested in this topic.

Given dma-buf is inherently designed for sharing, I hope the io-uring
interface can be generic for covering:

- read/write with same dma-buf can be submitted to multiple devices

- read/write with dma-buf can cross stackable devices(device mapper, raid,
  ...)


Thanks,
Ming

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:

> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. 

What is this about and why would you need something like this?

The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
driver.

> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
> compared to bouncing it via RAM. 

We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.

Jason

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

On 2/5/26 03:12, Ming Lei wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> Good day everyone,
>>
>> dma-buf is a powerful abstraction for managing buffers and DMA mappings,
>> and there is growing interest in extending it to the read/write path to
>> enable device-to-device transfers without bouncing data through system
>> memory. I was encouraged to submit it to LSF/MM/BPF as that might be
>> useful to mull over details and what capabilities and features people
>> may need.
>>
>> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
>> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
>> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping. The actual mapping
>> creation is delegated to the target subsystem (e.g. NVMe). This
>> abstraction centralises request accounting, mapping management, dynamic
>> recreation, etc. The resulting mapping object is passed through the I/O
>> stack via a new iov_iter type.
>>
>> As for the user API, a dma-buf is installed as an io_uring registered
>> buffer for a specific file. Once registered, the buffer can be used by
>> read / write io_uring requests as normal. io_uring will enforce that the
>> buffer is only used with "compatible files", which is for now restricted
>> to the target registration file, but will be expanded in the future.
>> Notably, io_uring is a consumer of the framework rather than a
>> dependency, and the infrastructure can be reused.
> 
> I am interested in this topic.
> 
> Given dma-buf is inherently designed for sharing, I hope the io-uring
> interface can be generic for covering:
> 
> - read/write with same dma-buf can be submitted to multiple devices
> 
> - read/write with dma-buf can cross stackable devices(device mapper, raid,
>    ...)

Yes, those should be possible to do, IIRC Christoph mentioned it
as well while asking to change the design of v1. The
implementation will need to forward registration down and create
a dma-buf attachment for each device.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> 
>> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
>> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
>> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
> 
> What is this about and why would you need something like this?
> 
> The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
> and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
> dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
> driver.

That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
multi-device filesystems. And 2) dma-buf folks want dynamic attachments,
and it makes it quite a bit more complicated when you might be asked to
shoot down DMA mappings at any moment, so I'm isolating all that
into something that can be reused.

>> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
>> compared to bouncing it via RAM.
> 
> We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
> are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
> also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.

Yes, and it should probably be nicer for frameworks that already
expose dma-bufs.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Thu, Feb 05, 2026 at 07:06:03PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > 
> > > The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> > > framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> > > and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
> > 
> > What is this about and why would you need something like this?
> > 
> > The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
> > and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
> > dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
> > driver.
> 
> That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
> the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
> into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
> multi-device filesystems. 

Ok.. but what does that have to do with a user space visible file?

> 2) dma-buf folks want dynamic attachments,
> and it makes it quite a bit more complicated when you might be asked to
> shoot down DMA mappings at any moment, so I'm isolating all that
> into something that can be reused.

IMHO there is probably nothing really resuable here. The logic to
fence any usage is entirely unique to whoever is using it, and the
locking tends to be really hard.

You should review the email threads linked to this patch and all it's
prior versions as the expected importer behavior for pinned dmabufs is
not well understood.

https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260131-dmabuf-revoke-v7-0-463d956bd527@nvidia.com/

> > > Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
> > > compared to bouncing it via RAM.
> > 
> > We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
> > are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
> > also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.
> 
> Yes, and it should probably be nicer for frameworks that already
> expose dma-bufs.

I'm not sure what this means?

Jason
 

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

On 2/5/26 23:56, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 05, 2026 at 07:06:03PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
>>> On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>>>
>>>> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
>>>> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
>>>> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
>>>
>>> What is this about and why would you need something like this?
>>>
>>> The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
>>> and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
>>> dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
>>> driver.
>>
>> That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
>> the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
>> into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
>> multi-device filesystems.
> 
> Ok.. but what does that have to do with a user space visible file?

If you're referring to registration taking a file, it's used to forward
this registration to the right driver, which knows about devices and can
create dma-buf attachment[s]. The abstraction users get is not just a
buffer but rather a buffer registered for a "subsystem" represented by
the passed file. With nvme raw bdev as the only importer in the patch set,
it's simply converges to "registered for the file", but the notion will
need to be expanded later, e.g. to accommodate filesystems.

>> 2) dma-buf folks want dynamic attachments,
>> and it makes it quite a bit more complicated when you might be asked to
>> shoot down DMA mappings at any moment, so I'm isolating all that
>> into something that can be reused.
> 
> IMHO there is probably nothing really resuable here. The logic to
> fence any usage is entirely unique to whoever is using it, and the
> locking tends to be really hard.
> 
> You should review the email threads linked to this patch and all it's
> prior versions as the expected importer behavior for pinned dmabufs is
> not well understood.

I'm not pinning it (i.e. no dma_buf_pin()), it should be a fair
dynamic implementation. In short, It adds a fence on move_notify
and signals when all requests using it are gone. New requests will
be trying to create a new mapping (and wait for fences).

> https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260131-dmabuf-revoke-v7-0-463d956bd527@nvidia.com/
> 
>>>> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
>>>> compared to bouncing it via RAM.
>>>
>>> We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
>>> are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
>>> also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.
>>
>> Yes, and it should probably be nicer for frameworks that already
>> expose dma-bufs.
> 
> I'm not sure what this means?

I'm saying that when a user app can easily get or already has a
dma-buf fd, it should be easier to just use it instead of finding
its way to FOLL_PCI_P2PDMA. I'm actually curious, is there a way
to somehow create a MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA mapping out of a random
dma-buf? From a quick glance, I only see nvme cmb and some accelerator
being registered to P2PDMA, but maybe I'm missing something.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Fri, Feb 06, 2026 at 03:08:25PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> On 2/5/26 23:56, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 05, 2026 at 07:06:03PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> > > > > framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> > > > > and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
> > > > 
> > > > What is this about and why would you need something like this?
> > > > 
> > > > The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
> > > > and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
> > > > dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
> > > > driver.
> > > 
> > > That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
> > > the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
> > > into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
> > > multi-device filesystems.
> > 
> > Ok.. but what does that have to do with a user space visible file?
> 
> If you're referring to registration taking a file, it's used to forward
> this registration to the right driver, which knows about devices and can
> create dma-buf attachment[s]. The abstraction users get is not just a
> buffer but rather a buffer registered for a "subsystem" represented by
> the passed file. With nvme raw bdev as the only importer in the patch set,
> it's simply converges to "registered for the file", but the notion will
> need to be expanded later, e.g. to accommodate filesystems.

Sounds completely goofy to me. A wrapper around DMABUF that lets you
attach to DMABUFs? Huh?

I feel like io uring should be dealing with this internally somehow not
creating more and more uapi..

The longer term goal has been to get page * out of the io stack and
start using phys_addr_t, if we could pass the DMABUF's MMIO as a
phys_addr_t around the IO stack then we only need to close the gap of
getting the p2p provider into the final DMA mapping.

Alot of this has improved in the past few cycles where the main issue
now is the carrying the provider and phys_addr_t through the io to the
nvme driver. vs when you started this and even that fundamental
infrastructure was missing.

> > > > > Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
> > > > > compared to bouncing it via RAM.
> > > > 
> > > > We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
> > > > are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
> > > > also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.
> > > 
> > > Yes, and it should probably be nicer for frameworks that already
> > > expose dma-bufs.
> > 
> > I'm not sure what this means?
> 
> I'm saying that when a user app can easily get or already has a
> dma-buf fd, it should be easier to just use it instead of finding
> its way to FOLL_PCI_P2PDMA.

But that all exists already and this proposal does nothing to improve
it..

> I'm actually curious, is there a way to somehow create a
> MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA mapping out of a random dma-buf? 

No. The driver owning the P2P MMIO has to do this during its probe and
then it has to provide a VMA with normal pages so GUP works. This is
usally not hard on the exporting driver side.

It costs some memory but then everything works naturally in the IO
stack.

Your project is interesting and would be a nice improvement, but I
also don't entirely understand why you are bothering when the P2PDMA
solution is already fully there ready to go... Is something preventing
you from creating the P2PDMA pages for your exporting driver?

Jason

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Pavel Begunkov]

On 2/6/26 15:20, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 06, 2026 at 03:08:25PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>> On 2/5/26 23:56, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
>>> On Thu, Feb 05, 2026 at 07:06:03PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>>>> On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
>>>>>> framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
>>>>>> and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is this about and why would you need something like this?
>>>>>
>>>>> The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
>>>>> and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
>>>>> dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
>>>>> driver.
>>>>
>>>> That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
>>>> the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
>>>> into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
>>>> multi-device filesystems.
>>>
>>> Ok.. but what does that have to do with a user space visible file?
>>
>> If you're referring to registration taking a file, it's used to forward
>> this registration to the right driver, which knows about devices and can
>> create dma-buf attachment[s]. The abstraction users get is not just a
>> buffer but rather a buffer registered for a "subsystem" represented by
>> the passed file. With nvme raw bdev as the only importer in the patch set,
>> it's simply converges to "registered for the file", but the notion will
>> need to be expanded later, e.g. to accommodate filesystems.
> 
> Sounds completely goofy to me.

Hmm... the discussion is not going to be productive, isn't it?

> A wrapper around DMABUF that lets you
> attach to DMABUFs? Huh?

I have no idea what you mean and what "attach to DMABUFs" is.
dma-buf is passed to the driver, which attaches it (as in
calls dma_buf_dynamic_attach()).

> I feel like io uring should be dealing with this internally somehow not
> creating more and more uapi..

uapi changes are already minimal and outside of the IO path.

> The longer term goal has been to get page * out of the io stack and
> start using phys_addr_t, if we could pass the DMABUF's MMIO as a

Except that I already tried passing device mapped addresses directly,
and it was rejected because it won't be able to handle more complicated
cases like multi-device filesystems and probably for other reasons.
Or would it be mapping it for each IO?

> phys_addr_t around the IO stack then we only need to close the gap of
> getting the p2p provider into the final DMA mapping.
> 
> Alot of this has improved in the past few cycles where the main issue
> now is the carrying the provider and phys_addr_t through the io to the
> nvme driver. vs when you started this and even that fundamental
> infrastructure was missing.
> 
>>>>>> Tushar was helping and mention he got good numbers for P2P transfers
>>>>>> compared to bouncing it via RAM.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can already avoid the bouncing, it seems the main improvements here
>>>>> are avoiding the DMA map per-io and allowing the use of P2P without
>>>>> also creating struct page. Meanginful wins for sure.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and it should probably be nicer for frameworks that already
>>>> expose dma-bufs.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what this means?
>>
>> I'm saying that when a user app can easily get or already has a
>> dma-buf fd, it should be easier to just use it instead of finding
>> its way to FOLL_PCI_P2PDMA.
> 
> But that all exists already and this proposal does nothing to improve
> it..

dma-buf already exists as well, and I'm ashamed to admit,
but I don't know how a user program can read into / write from
memory provided by dma-buf.

>> I'm actually curious, is there a way to somehow create a
>> MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA mapping out of a random dma-buf?
> 
> No. The driver owning the P2P MMIO has to do this during its probe and
> then it has to provide a VMA with normal pages so GUP works. This is
> usally not hard on the exporting driver side.
> 
> It costs some memory but then everything works naturally in the IO
> stack.
> 
> Your project is interesting and would be a nice improvement, but I
> also don't entirely understand why you are bothering when the P2PDMA
> solution is already fully there ready to go... Is something preventing
> you from creating the P2PDMA pages for your exporting driver?

I'm not doing it for any particular driver but rather trying
to reuse what's already there, i.e. a good coverage of existing
dma-buf exporters, and infrastructure dma-buf provides, e.g.
move_notify. And trying to do that efficiently, avoiding GUP
(what io_uring can already do for normal memory), keeping long
term mappings (modulo move_notify), and so. That includes
optimising the cost of system memory rw with iommu.

-- 
Pavel Begunkov

Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] dmabuf backed read/write

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Fri, Feb 06, 2026 at 05:57:14PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> On 2/6/26 15:20, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 06, 2026 at 03:08:25PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > On 2/5/26 23:56, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Feb 05, 2026 at 07:06:03PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > > > On 2/5/26 17:41, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Feb 03, 2026 at 02:29:55PM +0000, Pavel Begunkov wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The proposal consists of two parts. The first is a small in-kernel
> > > > > > > framework that allows a dma-buf to be registered against a given file
> > > > > > > and returns an object representing a DMA mapping.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What is this about and why would you need something like this?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The rest makes more sense - pass a DMABUF (or even memfd) to iouring
> > > > > > and pre-setup the DMA mapping to get dma_addr_t, then directly use
> > > > > > dma_addr_t through the entire block stack right into the eventual
> > > > > > driver.
> > > > > 
> > > > > That's more or less what I tried to do in v1, but 1) people didn't like
> > > > > the idea of passing raw dma addresses directly, and having it wrapped
> > > > > into a black box gives more flexibility like potentially supporting
> > > > > multi-device filesystems.
> > > > 
> > > > Ok.. but what does that have to do with a user space visible file?
> > > 
> > > If you're referring to registration taking a file, it's used to forward
> > > this registration to the right driver, which knows about devices and can
> > > create dma-buf attachment[s]. The abstraction users get is not just a
> > > buffer but rather a buffer registered for a "subsystem" represented by
> > > the passed file. With nvme raw bdev as the only importer in the patch set,
> > > it's simply converges to "registered for the file", but the notion will
> > > need to be expanded later, e.g. to accommodate filesystems.
> > 
> > Sounds completely goofy to me.
> 
> Hmm... the discussion is not going to be productive, isn't it?

Well, this FD thing is very confounding and, sorry I don't see much
logic to this design. I understand the problems you are explaining but
not this solution.

> Or would it be mapping it for each IO?

mapping for each IO could be possible with a phys_addr_t path.

> dma-buf already exists as well, and I'm ashamed to admit,
> but I don't know how a user program can read into / write from
> memory provided by dma-buf.

You can mmap them. It can even be used with read() write() system
calls if the dma buf exporter is using P2P pages.

> I'm not doing it for any particular driver but rather trying
> to reuse what's already there, i.e. a good coverage of existing
> dma-buf exporters, and infrastructure dma-buf provides, e.g.
> move_notify. And trying to do that efficiently, avoiding GUP
> (what io_uring can already do for normal memory), keeping long
> term mappings (modulo move_notify), and so. That includes
> optimising the cost of system memory rw with iommu.

I would suggest leading with these reasons to frame why you are trying
to do this. It seems the main motivation is to create a pre
registered, and pre-IOMMU-mapped io uring pool of MMIO memory, and
indeed you cannot do that with the existing mechanisms at all.

As a step forward I could imagine having a DMABUF handing out P2P
pages and allowing io uring to "register" it complete with move
notify. This would get you half the way there and doesn't require
major changes to the block stack since you can still be pushing
unmapped struct page backed addresses and everything will work
fine. It is a good way to sidestep the FOLL_LONGTERM issue.

Pre-iommu-mapping the pool seems like an orthogonal project as it
applies to everything coming from pre-registered io uring buffers,
even normal cpu memory. You could have a next step of pre-mapping the
P2P pages and CPU pages equally.

Finally you could try a project to remove the P2P page requirement for
cases that use the pre-iommu-mapping flow.

It would probably be helpful not to mixup those three things..

Jason