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From: Jens Axboe <[email protected]>
To: Ben Noordhuis <[email protected]>,
	Pavel Begunkov <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [PATCH] io_uring: undeprecate epoll_ctl support
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 06:49:53 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <[email protected]> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHQurc9L-noiMjvFsXghaBoVEBs7KJ5-a4t-eRvRim0=5HuW8w@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/3/23 2:58?AM, Ben Noordhuis wrote:
> On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 2:51?PM Pavel Begunkov <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/1/23 19:52, Ben Noordhuis wrote:
>>> Libuv recently started using it so there is at least one consumer now.
>>
>> It was rather deprecated because io_uring controlling epoll is a bad
>> idea and should never be used. One reason is that it means libuv still
>> uses epoll but not io_uring, and so the use of io_uring wouldn't seem
>> to make much sense. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that, why libuv
>> decided to use a deprecated API in the first place?
>> Sorry, but the warning is going to stay and libuv should revert the use
>> of epol_ctl requests.
> 
> Why use a deprecated API? Because it was only recently deprecated.
> Distro kernels don't warn about it yet. I only found out because of
> kernel source code spelunking.
> 
> Why combine io_uring and epoll? Libuv uses level-triggered I/O for
> reasons (I can go into detail but they're not material) so it's very
> profitable to batch epoll_ctl syscalls; it's the epoll_ctlv() syscall
> people have been asking for since practically forever.
> 
> Why not switch to io_uring wholesale? Libuv can't drop support for
> epoll because of old kernels, and io_uring isn't always clearly faster
> than epoll in the first place.
> 
> As to the warning: according to the commit that introduced it, it was
> added because no one was using IORING_OP_EPOLL_CTL. Well, now someone
> is using it. Saying it's a bad API feels like post-hoc
> rationalization. I kindly ask you merge this patch. I'd be happy to
> keep an eye on io_uring/epoll.c if you're worried about maintenance
> burden.

This is obviously mostly our fault, as the deprecation patch should've
obviously been backported to stable. Just adding it to the current
kernel defeated the purpose, as it added a long period where older
kernels quite happily accepted epoll use cases.

So I do agree, the only sane course of action here is to un-deprecate
it.

-- 
Jens Axboe


  reply	other threads:[~2023-05-03 12:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-05-01 18:52 [PATCH] io_uring: undeprecate epoll_ctl support Ben Noordhuis
2023-05-02 12:47 ` Pavel Begunkov
2023-05-03  8:58   ` Ben Noordhuis
2023-05-03 12:49     ` Jens Axboe [this message]
2023-05-03 13:21       ` Pavel Begunkov
2023-05-03 13:42         ` Jens Axboe
2023-05-03 13:13     ` Pavel Begunkov
2023-05-03 14:55 ` Jens Axboe
2023-05-06  9:55   ` Ben Noordhuis
2023-05-27  1:48     ` Sam James
2023-05-27  2:22       ` Jens Axboe
2023-05-27  2:22     ` Jens Axboe

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